The AP English Language and Composition course is designed to enable students to become skilled readers and writers in diverse genres and modes of composition. As stated in the Advanced Placement Course Description, the purpose of the Language and Composition course is “to enable students to read complex texts with understanding and to write papers of sufficient richness and complexity to communicate effectively with mature readers” (The College Board, May 2007, May 2008, p.6).
Wednesday, September 28, 2011
Post discussion questions
Finish your group discussion about "The Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong" and post your comments here.
Here's another link to practice AP multiple choice questions. See how you do with this.
1. Vietnam ultimately transforms Mary Anne into a predatory killer. She craves the land itself, saying she wants to "swallow the whole country" (111) in order to feel it inside her. Through Vietnam, Mary Anne finds in herself an insatiable appetite for the adrenaline that war elicits. Because Mary Anne is a woman, this also challenges the men's (and the reader's) pre-concieved notions about women: that they are the epitome of innocence; that they are incapable of any evil. This exposes the truth of the Vietnam War and war itself: that no one is immune to it; that war takes innocence impartially.
2. In our group, we each had our own opinions as to whether the actual story took place, and we decided that the point we were debating most is whether or not Mary Anne actually came to Vietnam. If the answer was yes, the events would have probably panned out as they did in Rat's story. However, whether or not the story was true did not make it any less compelling. Rather, it made it more compelling--especially for the men who are being told the story. These soldiers thrive on stories--they give them something to believe in, to hold onto in the tumultuous war. In this case, then, the story does fit the criteria of a "true war story"--a story that might or might not be true, but one that the soldiers believe simply because they must.
3. Mary Anne symbolizes innocence and to the men, their girls (and thus lives) back home. Vietnam represents the "monster" that corrupts Mary Anne (and others) and takes innocence. The ambushes, the cave, and the Greenies both represent Mary Anne's "shadow self." These subjects are all the more symbolic because they are filled with darkness and savagery, which traditionally symbolize evil, and in this case symbolize Mary Anne's bestial transformation.
4. Scenes symbolizing Mary Anne's transformation: When she first came to Vietnam and began learning about the intricacies of war: "In times of action her face took on a sudden new composure, almost serene, the fuzzy blue eyes narrowing into a tight, intelligent focus...the way she quickly fell into the habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing...There was a new confidence in her voice, a new authority in the way she carried herself. In many ways she remained naive and immature, still a kid, but Cleveland Heights now seemed very far away" (98). After Mary Anne's first ambush, when Fossie yelled at her and set down "some new rules," and eventually, planned to send her home: "At first, Rat said, Mary Anne seemed to accept it, but then after a day or two she fell into a restless gloom, sitting off by herself at the edge of the perimeter. She would not speak. Shoulders hunched, her blue eyes opaque, she seemed to disappear inside herself. A couple of times Fossie approached her and tried to talk it out, but Mary Anne just stared out at the sark green mountains to the west. The wilderness seemed to draw her in. A haunted look, Rat said--partly terror, partly rapture. It was as if she had come up on the edge of something, as if she were caught in that no-man's land between Cleveland Heights and deep jungle. Seventeen years old. Just a child, blond and innocent, but then weren't they all?" (105). And finally, the cave scene, where Mary Anne's full transformation is witnessed, and she justifies her behavior to the men, saying: "When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark--I'm on fire almost--I'm burning away into nothing--but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am. You can't feel like that anywhere else" (111). Our group thinks that Vietnam did not drive Mary Anne crazy--rather, it triggered a repressed facet of herself: the uncivilized, bestial facet. Many novels (The Lord of the Flies comes to mind) deals with the theme that humans are, at their core, bestial and evil--this story seems to reinforce that theme.
5. As stated before, in the cave scene, Mary Anne has tapped into, psychologically, the "dark side" of herself. The cave is filled with the stench of "blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh--the stink of the kill" (110). Bones and a leopard head decorate the walls of the cave, and the entire place is filled with an eerie, primitive atmosphere--as if an ancient ritual is taking place. From out of the shadows steps Mary Anne with a new piece of jewelry around her neck--a necklace of human tongues. She is also wearing her pink sweater and white blouse, and this juxtaposition makes the image all the more dark and gruesome.
6. The vague ending adds to the story--it keeps with the theme of mysticism, and leaves the reader questioning whether or not the story itself happened. What matters is the theme of the story: how Vietnam seizes the innocence of all who come there. The story might have not happened, the ending might have not happened, but it could have, and this slight possibility helps the story to come alive, as it does for Rat and all he tells it to.
1. When Mary first arrived at the bas camp, she was jolly and silly. After a couple of weeks she developed a more serious and hardened exterior. She became very fascinated by blood. No, it doesn’t matter if she is a woman. The story reveals the nature about Vietnam War that it doesn’t seem that big of an impact unless one is experiencing the war itself and because of that fact (besides the bloodshed and killing) they become a totally different person after the war.
2. The story’s lack of believability doesn’t make it any less compelling. It easy to believe that a young girl whisked away in a war so tragic like this one goes through intense characterization---starting off from a friendly, sweet, innocent girl—ending up with a tough exterior and ready to ambush if necessary. Although I don’t believe she arrived in a helicopter, that part just seems weird. It is possible it fits his criteria for a war story, since even though it may not be entirely real to the reader, it may be real to the character’s perspective.
3. The pink sweater may relate to her innocence---pink being the color of pure love and fertility. And perhaps, even on a stretch, Vietnam itself could even be symbolic… as to hidden secrets, uncovering dark truths and seeing the world for what it really is.
4. Rat says when Mary Anne came here she was pure, innocent, and jolly. But in the novel it showed how Mary is some what lost and tried. Rat also explains how in the first day Mary wouldn't even look at blood but after two weeks see was fascinated by it. Another example of Mary's change was when Rat says Mary use to be silly at times but after the causalities came she began to change and become more serious. We agree that she change then rather she became crazy, thus because before a war most people are ignorant but after being expose to everything people start to realize what really is going on. Mary went through that period and realized that the only way to feel alive was going through war itself and going through that adrenaline.
5. The cave was extremely dark, perhaps this could refer to the darkness that surrounds her conscious (soul, psyche) since she began seeing the realities of the war.
6. No, we do not need to know what happened to Mary Anne after she left the camp. The author manages to grab the attention of the reader and leaves one wondering about the end of Mary Anne. It adds depth to the story by leaving off with a cliff-hanger.
2. The lack of believability in "The Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong" does not remove the compelling effect because of all the emotions within the writing and the story is trying to underline the real truth of the Vietnam War. It still holds the same pain and anguish of war. Yes it does fit O'Brien's criteria for a true war story.
3. Tongues- the tongues represent Mary Anne's Transformation from an innocent woman to a predatory killer. Mary Anne- is seen as an innocent figure to the men and shows readers how war can corrupt anyone Caves- represent darkness and crossing the invisible line between evil and good.
4. "Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but adrenaline buzz that went with the job..." (98) "The way she quickly fell into habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing. She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandana."(98) "Her body seemed foreign somehow-too stiff in places, too firm where softness used to be." (99) The group believes she went crazy mentally but no so much physically because she became distant towards the men but did not act out on them physically. Maeve And Chantel
1. Vietnam does transform Mary Anne in a predatory killer. As she becomes involved in the Vietnamese culture, she is less affected by her surroundings and more empowered by war. This change shows that a woman’s job was not only comforting the men.
2. We don’t believe the lack of believability would make it less compelling. People enjoy reading fiction because it is a lot less predictable than actual facts. In our opinion, realistic fiction, such as The Things They Carried, is more compelling than something like Cinderella.
3. The cave symbolizes the darker side of a person, Mary Anne’s necklace symbolizes her want to fit into the Vietnamese community, and Vietnam symbolizes the corruption in Mary Anne’s life.
4. “The girl seemed tired and somewhat lost, but she smiled” (94). “All camouflaged up, her face smooth and vacant, she seemed to flow like water through the dark, like oil, without sound or center” (115). “At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable” (111). We don’t believe Mary Anne went crazy, but instead embraced another culture. The other soldiers didn’t want to relate to the Vietnamese, which showed that Mary Anne went into war with an opened mind.
1. The excitement and danger of the war transform Mary Anne. She says she wants to "swallow the whole country" of Vietnam. Vietnam steals innocence from everyone. It turns humans into crazy killing machines.
2. The story does not strike me as real. It was created to show how transforming the war could be. All the graphic imagery of human tongues around Mary Anne's neck, her willingness to kill show just how profound the experience of war is.
3. The three symbols in the chapter were the human tongues which symbolized savagery, Mary Anne who symbolized innocence and purity, and the jungle which symbolized uncertainty and hostility.
4. Some quotations that stuck out were the ones dealing with Mary Anne's transformation. "She was ready for the kill" (116), "Odd movements, odd shapes."(116), "She had crossed to the other side" (116)
5. In the cave scene, Mary Anne has become a living demon. The cave contains Bones and a leopard head, blood, rotting flesh. The evil has emerged in her and she appears with human tongues around her neck and her pink sweater.
6. Doesn't matter what actually happened in reality. The vague ending only confirms the snatching of innocence further. The land has taken Mary Anne. She is never coming back.
2. It's lack of believability makes it more compelling that direct biography. It turns the story into myth and allegory, giving it a much more profound story, and giving it a universal meaning rather than a personal one. In this sense it fits Obrien's perfectly, as it makes us ask the question "is it true"
3. Mary Ann-Innocence of humanity before war, the pure virgin later to be desecrated by the horrors of war
Jungle-Represents the confusing chaos of war, and violence. When "the pure virgin" becomes "one with the jungle" it represents a complete loss of humanity in the face of that immense, humid, violence.
Tongue Necklace-Murder and Inhumanity's transformation from foreign uncommon things to a component of the everyday
4. "Over the next day or two, as more casualties trickled in, she learned how to clip and artery and pump up a plastic splint and shoot in morphine" (98) This piece shows the first hardening of innocence. She learns to deal with, and accept the blood and pain. She loses her naive nature. "She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandana. Hygiene became a matter of small consequence" (98). Mary Anne has been transformed from the war. She is no longer innocent, but now involved in a war that is beyond her.
5. In the cave there are the bones of humans, and the stench of death. It is ancient, like the caves a primitive human would live in strewn with bones, blood, and mythologic terror. The cave represents a different side, darker, side of humanity that Mary Ann has descended into(as rat etc descend into the face).
6. Because the story lacks a definite ending, it allows the story to evolve from a mere re-telling into a myth. Something that others can change, and understand differently. As with much of Obrien, the only important aspect of the story is the moral, and the emotional response, any clear cut ending would take the reading out of the mysticism of the chapter.
5. The "cave scene" was the final stage of Mary Anne's change. In the "cave scene" Rat Kiley and Eddie Diamond heard a woman chanting and singing in a foreign tongue. They saw Fossie and Fossie told them it was Mary Anne. Then Fossie stormed in the cave and Rat and Eddie followed. When they got inside the cave there were "...a dozen candles burning on the floor near the open window... There was a topmost scent of joss sticks and incense, like the fumes of some exotic smokehouse, but beneath the smoke lay a deeper and much more powerful stench...Thick and numbing like an animal's den, a mix of blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh...And bones. Stacks of bones- all kinds." (109-110) After this cave scene Mary Anne is now officially apart of Vietnam.
6. No it does not matter what happened to Mary Anne. It is how she changed and why that matters. The vague ending adds to the loss of innocence and leaves the audience thinking that she only got worse as the days progressed. Chantel and Maeve
1. In "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong," the excitement and danger of the war transforms Mary Anne. She says she wants to "swallow the whole country" of Vietnam. Mary Anne's gender does not play a role in her transformation; Vietnam steals innocence from everyone. The purpose of this story is to illustrate how war has the power of turning humans into killing machines.
2. It's lack of believability makes it more compelling. The highly fantastical component gives it a much more profound story, and provides a universal meaning rather than a personal one. It is so unbelievable that it makes the reader question if it is actually true, due to O'Brien's description of a "true war story."
3. Mary Anne represents the innocence of humanity before war. She is the "purity" that a country or a group of people have that later is desecrated by the horrors of war.
The Jungle represents the confusing chaos of war and violence. When the chaos of war meets innocence (or Mary Anne meets the Jungle) it represents a complete loss of humanity in the face of that immense, humid, violence.
Finally, the tongue necklace represents murder: the transformation from foreign uncommon things to a component of the everyday
4. "Over the next day or two, as more casualties trickled in, she learned how to clip and artery and pump up a plastic splint and shoot in morphine" (98) “At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable” (111). “All camouflaged up, her face smooth and vacant, she seemed to flow like water through the dark, like oil, without sound or center” (115) Mary Anne did not go crazy. Instead, she embraced the "culture" of war because in an environment where she is the only "purity," eventually it will rub off and she will be naked in a sense until she dons the war mentality.
5. In the cave scene, Mary Anne has become an embodiment of everything that war is. The cave contains bones and a leopard head, blood, rotting flesh. The evil has emerged in her and she appears with human tongues around her neck and her pink sweater.
6. The story lacks a definite ending, which it allows it to really personify the idea that one does not know where the truth ends with Rat Kiley. The vague ending simply confirms that Mary Anne's innocence has been snatched and she is not coming back.
1. Ultimately, the constant rush of adrenaline and the need to be acutely aware of her surroundings transformed Mary Anne into a skilled soldier and a fierce killing machine. In terms of adding to the story, it does matter that Mary Anne was a woman. It is perhaps even more disturbing to the reader that a woman could succumb to the lifestyle that war brings with it, even more so that she could thrive in it. This story illustrates that even the most sweet, innocent things become corrupt when faced with the possibility of death and the possibility of triumph, and how addicting and deadly the combination of both can be. 2. The fact that this story is so hard to believe makes it all the more enticing. However, in the end it's not really about whether the story actually happened or not. It's about the story behind the story, the profound meaning. It does fit the criteria for a true war story. Not only does it reveal truths about the nature of the war, but also the nature of humans and their ability to become, put simply, inhuman. 3. The necklace of tongues represents the casual acceptance of killing Mary Anne adapts to. It also represents her transition into a killing machine. She no longer bats an eye at the loss of human life- it becomes expendable to her when she risks hers so frequently and feels more alive than she ever has. Mary Anne herself represents the innocence lost in the war. The loss of innocence is more pronounced in her story because to the men she was the sweetest, most innocent thing that had seen since they left their homes, and it mesmerized them that something so pure could still exist, and it broke their hearts to see something like that collapse just as they had in the midst of war. The cave Mary Anne escapes to represents her “dark side”, which marks her complete loss of innocence and humanity, something so common in the war. She is now completely gone- and replacing what she once was is now a soldier, a trained killer, which proves to be an irreversible leap. 4. “Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but adrenaline buzz that went with the job..." (98) "When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark--I'm on fire almost--I'm burning away into nothing--but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am. You can't feel like that anywhere else" (111). “All camouflaged up, her face smooth and vacant, she seemed to flow like water through the dark, like oil, without sound or center.” (115) These quotes illustrate Mary Anne’s change from start to finish. She doesn’t go crazy at all. She becomes aloof, calculating- unfazed by the bloodshed and the tragedy of it all. And at the same time, she becomes closer to herself, more aware of how alive every part of her is, while being so dangerously close to death. It’s almost as if she views the war as a game. She takes chances, she makes swift attacks, and constantly avoids ‘game over’. 5. The cave scene is dark, gruesome, and eye opening. Mary Anne has found her “dark side” and likes it there. The cave smells of, “blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh--the stink of the kill" (110). The cave is eerie, almost as if it is a home to a beast or primitive animals. Mary Anne wears her necklace of tongues which contrasts starkly with her pink sweater and white blouse, which brings to light just how much she’s changed. 6. It doesn’t really matter what happens to her in the end. The reader almost doesn’t want to know. It’s almost more emotionally satisfying to leave it a question as it adds to the mystery of the story. The ending just signifies that the land has taken Mary Anne- she is lost, along with her old character, life, and the innocence she once embodied.
1. The atmosphere of war changes Mary Anne. It makes her into a predatory killer, she finds herself craving the land itself and so on. It matters that she is a woman because it made everyone conscious of her. It's also important that she is a woman because it shows that the war in Vietnam can change anyone, even those who were expected to never even step foot on the land. The story tells us that the Vietnam War can change anybody. It messes with heads, state of minds, people's ways of lives. Once you come out from the war, you're never the same again.
2. It's lack of believability does not make it less compelling. It's making it more so and that's what O'Brien tells us in the first place. We're not expected to believe in the story, but it exaggerates and causes us to see it in a way that allows us to see it has he has. This does fit O'Brien's criteria for a true war story. It's not true, and yet it is. It isn't fact but lets us view it as a soldier or O'Brien himself.
3. The white culottes that Mary Anne first wore symbolized her innocence. She was sent straight out, unknowing the of the world she would soon arrive in. She later abandons her white culottes, which obviously symbolizes her innocence torn away from her by the war.
The necklace of human tongues worn around Mary Anne's neck was a symbol of the war, the things that it did to people. The gross and horrible things done were shown by the collection of cut off tongues on Mary Anne's necklace. It was grotesque, and so was the war.
The Green Berets symbolize the evil and destitution of the war, and the driving force behind the insanity. They were what created the fog of war to the other soldiers.
My, Hannah, Becky, Gracie Parker, Grace Elliott continued
4. "Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but adrenaline buzz that went with the job..." (98) “At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable” (111). "She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandana. Hygiene became a matter of small consequence" (98)
Mary Anne is at first an average, young girl from America. She is young and pure and arrives in Vietnam clueless as to what will later become of her. She cuts her short hair and she abandons her white culottes and the cute clothes she first wore. She later becomes accustomed to the weapons, food, the men, etc. She changes. She doesn't exactly go crazy. The war, indeed, does tend to make people crazy, but in this story the war changed Mary Anne. Mary Anne was a symbol of the soldiers that the war had warped and changed.
5. The "cave scene" is definitely somethings that makes us as a reader wince or back away a bit from. The details are horrific and shocking. The imagery from the necklace of tongues leave us with a gruesome picture in mind. Mary Anne has found another side. She has become someone new, someone who has become, like said before, a predatory killer.
6. It doesn't matter what happens in the end to Mary Anne. It's like what happens to soldiers after a war, some are missing in action, some have died, some have come back but as remnants of what they used to be. It is different, war ends in so many ways for so many people. It wouldn't make the story better if we had known. It wouldn't leave us with a mysterious feeling if we had ultimately known what had happened with Mary Anne. The vague ending definitely adds to the story, it leaves it up to the reader to imagine what Mary Anne has been up to afterwards.
Isho 1) In “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong”, the Ambush transforms Mary Anne into a predatory killer. She probably wants to die fighting for her country. She cannot stay in a war zone without doing anything, she has to either kill or be killed. She has to learn to protect herself. No, the fact that she is a woman does not matter at all, because every individual have their own characteristics. It does not depend on what gender the individual is, it depends on their character. The story tells us that the nature of the Vietnam War is like art. There is beauty hidden in the war, one will only see that beauty when he/she seeks for it. When one looks deep into the Vietnam War and its nature, one will discover a whole new point of view of the war.
2) The story Rat tells seems very realistic. Its lack of believability actually makes the story more interesting and it drags me into the story. Yes, I would fall for this story and maybe believe it too. I do not think that it fits O’Brien’s criteria for a true war story.
3) Symbols. * Mary Anne: She is symbolic of ignorance and innocence. She shows how even the innocent or ignorant can be transformed when it comes to war. *The human tongue necklace: This is a symbol of danger, no mercy and most of all, war. *pink sweater and culottes: These clothes are the clothes of a “real woman”.
4) * “She seemed comfortable and entirely at home; the hostile atmosphere did not seem to register. All morning Mary Anne chattered away about how quaint the place was, how she loved the naked children, the wonderful simplicity of village life.”(96) * “The way she quickly fell into the habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing. She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandanna.”(98) * “Her eyes seemed to shine in the dark-not blue, though, but a bright glowing jungle green.”(106) Mary Anne does not go crazy. The war defines her, its part of her, it’s who she is. She finally discovered herself in the war.
5. The cave scene illustrates Mary Anne’s complete transformation. She is not the old Mary Anne any more; she is a whole new person. She is the definition of death and danger in this scene. Graphic imagery from that scene: *”Across the room a dozen candles were burning on the floor near the open window” (109). * “On a post at the rear of the hootch was the decayed head of a large black leopard; strips of yellow-brown ski dangled from the overhead rafters. And bones. Stacks of bones-all kinds” (110). “She was barefoot. She wore her pink sweater and a white blouse and a simple cotton skirt” (110).
6) Well, yes what happened to Mary Anne matters, but it’s an intelligent choice that the author doesn’t tell what happened to her. It grabs more attention and it gets to the point where the readers will be questioning about the end. Like, did Vietnam eat her instead of her eating Vietnam? Did Vietnam destroy her? It would not be a better story if we knew what happened to Mary Anne.
1. Vietnam ultimately transforms Mary Anne into a predatory killer. She craves the land itself, saying she wants to "swallow the whole country" (111) in order to feel it inside her. Through Vietnam, Mary Anne finds in herself an insatiable appetite for the adrenaline that war elicits. Because Mary Anne is a woman, this also challenges the men's (and the reader's) pre-concieved notions about women: that they are the epitome of innocence; that they are incapable of any evil. This exposes the truth of the Vietnam War and war itself: that no one is immune to it; that war takes innocence impartially.
ReplyDelete2. In our group, we each had our own opinions as to whether the actual story took place, and we decided that the point we were debating most is whether or not Mary Anne actually came to Vietnam. If the answer was yes, the events would have probably panned out as they did in Rat's story. However, whether or not the story was true did not make it any less compelling. Rather, it made it more compelling--especially for the men who are being told the story. These soldiers thrive on stories--they give them something to believe in, to hold onto in the tumultuous war. In this case, then, the story does fit the criteria of a "true war story"--a story that might or might not be true, but one that the soldiers believe simply because they must.
3. Mary Anne symbolizes innocence and to the men, their girls (and thus lives) back home.
Vietnam represents the "monster" that corrupts Mary Anne (and others) and takes innocence.
The ambushes, the cave, and the Greenies both represent Mary Anne's "shadow self." These subjects are all the more symbolic because they are filled with darkness and savagery, which traditionally symbolize evil, and in this case symbolize Mary Anne's bestial transformation.
4. Scenes symbolizing Mary Anne's transformation:
ReplyDeleteWhen she first came to Vietnam and began learning about the intricacies of war: "In times of action her face took on a sudden new composure, almost serene, the fuzzy blue eyes narrowing into a tight, intelligent focus...the way she quickly fell into the habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing...There was a new confidence in her voice, a new authority in the way she carried herself. In many ways she remained naive and immature, still a kid, but Cleveland Heights now seemed very far away" (98).
After Mary Anne's first ambush, when Fossie yelled at her and set down "some new rules," and eventually, planned to send her home: "At first, Rat said, Mary Anne seemed to accept it, but then after a day or two she fell into a restless gloom, sitting off by herself at the edge of the perimeter. She would not speak. Shoulders hunched, her blue eyes opaque, she seemed to disappear inside herself. A couple of times Fossie approached her and tried to talk it out, but Mary Anne just stared out at the sark green mountains to the west. The wilderness seemed to draw her in. A haunted look, Rat said--partly terror, partly rapture. It was as if she had come up on the edge of something, as if she were caught in that no-man's land between Cleveland Heights and deep jungle. Seventeen years old. Just a child, blond and innocent, but then weren't they all?" (105).
And finally, the cave scene, where Mary Anne's full transformation is witnessed, and she justifies her behavior to the men, saying: "When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark--I'm on fire almost--I'm burning away into nothing--but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am. You can't feel like that anywhere else" (111).
Our group thinks that Vietnam did not drive Mary Anne crazy--rather, it triggered a repressed facet of herself: the uncivilized, bestial facet. Many novels (The Lord of the Flies comes to mind) deals with the theme that humans are, at their core, bestial and evil--this story seems to reinforce that theme.
5. As stated before, in the cave scene, Mary Anne has tapped into, psychologically, the "dark side" of herself. The cave is filled with the stench of "blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh--the stink of the kill" (110). Bones and a leopard head decorate the walls of the cave, and the entire place is filled with an eerie, primitive atmosphere--as if an ancient ritual is taking place. From out of the shadows steps Mary Anne with a new piece of jewelry around her neck--a necklace of human tongues. She is also wearing her pink sweater and white blouse, and this juxtaposition makes the image all the more dark and gruesome.
6. The vague ending adds to the story--it keeps with the theme of mysticism, and leaves the reader questioning whether or not the story itself happened. What matters is the theme of the story: how Vietnam seizes the innocence of all who come there. The story might have not happened, the ending might have not happened, but it could have, and this slight possibility helps the story to come alive, as it does for Rat and all he tells it to.
BEN, CHARLOTTE, CLAUDIA, JORDAN, MADDY
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ReplyDeleteCarolyn, Leon, Anastacea
ReplyDelete1. When Mary first arrived at the bas camp, she was jolly and silly. After a couple of weeks she developed a more serious and hardened exterior. She became very fascinated by blood. No, it doesn’t matter if she is a woman. The story reveals the nature about Vietnam War that it doesn’t seem that big of an impact unless one is experiencing the war itself and because of that fact (besides the bloodshed and killing) they become a totally different person after the war.
2. The story’s lack of believability doesn’t make it any less compelling. It easy to believe that a young girl whisked away in a war so tragic like this one goes through intense characterization---starting off from a friendly, sweet, innocent girl—ending up with a tough exterior and ready to ambush if necessary. Although I don’t believe she arrived in a helicopter, that part just seems weird. It is possible it fits his criteria for a war story, since even though it may not be entirely real to the reader, it may be real to the character’s perspective.
3. The pink sweater may relate to her innocence---pink being the color of pure love and fertility. And perhaps, even on a stretch, Vietnam itself could even be symbolic… as to hidden secrets, uncovering dark truths and seeing the world for what it really is.
4. Rat says when Mary Anne came here she was pure, innocent, and jolly. But in the novel it showed how Mary is some what lost and tried. Rat also explains how in the first day Mary wouldn't even look at blood but after two weeks see was fascinated by it. Another example of Mary's change was when Rat says Mary use to be silly at times but after the causalities came she began to change and become more serious. We agree that she change then rather she became crazy, thus because before a war most people are ignorant but after being expose to everything people start to realize what really is going on. Mary went through that period and realized that the only way to feel alive was going through war itself and going through that adrenaline.
5. The cave was extremely dark, perhaps this could refer to the darkness that surrounds her conscious (soul, psyche) since she began seeing the realities of the war.
6. No, we do not need to know what happened to Mary Anne after she left the camp. The author manages to grab the attention of the reader and leaves one wondering about the end of Mary Anne. It adds depth to the story by leaving off with a cliff-hanger.
2. The lack of believability in "The Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong" does not remove the compelling effect because of all the emotions within the writing and the story is trying to underline the real truth of the Vietnam War. It still holds the same pain and anguish of war. Yes it does fit O'Brien's criteria for a true war story.
ReplyDelete3. Tongues- the tongues represent Mary Anne's Transformation from an innocent woman to a predatory killer.
Mary Anne- is seen as an innocent figure to the men and shows readers how war can corrupt anyone
Caves- represent darkness and crossing the invisible line between evil and good.
4. "Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but adrenaline buzz that went with the job..." (98)
"The way she quickly fell into habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing. She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandana."(98)
"Her body seemed foreign somehow-too stiff in places, too firm where softness used to be." (99) The group believes she went crazy mentally but no so much physically because she became distant towards the men but did not act out on them physically.
Maeve And Chantel
Gabriela, Jessica, Sam, Angela
ReplyDelete1. Vietnam does transform Mary Anne in a predatory killer. As she becomes involved in the Vietnamese culture, she is less affected by her surroundings and more empowered by war. This change shows that a woman’s job was not only comforting the men.
2. We don’t believe the lack of believability would make it less compelling. People enjoy reading fiction because it is a lot less predictable than actual facts. In our opinion, realistic fiction, such as The Things They Carried, is more compelling than something like Cinderella.
3. The cave symbolizes the darker side of a person, Mary Anne’s necklace symbolizes her want to fit into the Vietnamese community, and Vietnam symbolizes the corruption in Mary Anne’s life.
4. “The girl seemed tired and somewhat lost, but she smiled” (94).
“All camouflaged up, her face smooth and vacant, she seemed to flow like water through the dark, like oil, without sound or center” (115).
“At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable” (111).
We don’t believe Mary Anne went crazy, but instead embraced another culture. The other soldiers didn’t want to relate to the Vietnamese, which showed that Mary Anne went into war with an opened mind.
1. The excitement and danger of the war transform Mary Anne. She says she wants to "swallow the whole country" of Vietnam. Vietnam steals innocence from everyone. It turns humans into crazy killing machines.
ReplyDelete2. The story does not strike me as real. It was created to show how transforming the war could be. All the graphic imagery of human tongues around Mary Anne's neck, her willingness to kill show just how profound the experience of war is.
3. The three symbols in the chapter were the human tongues which symbolized savagery, Mary Anne who symbolized innocence and purity, and the jungle which symbolized uncertainty and hostility.
4. Some quotations that stuck out were the ones dealing with Mary Anne's transformation. "She was ready for the kill" (116), "Odd movements, odd shapes."(116), "She had crossed to the other side" (116)
5. In the cave scene, Mary Anne has become a living demon. The cave contains Bones and a leopard head, blood, rotting flesh. The evil has emerged in her and she appears with human tongues around her neck and her pink sweater.
6. Doesn't matter what actually happened in reality. The vague ending only confirms the snatching of innocence further. The land has taken Mary Anne. She is never coming back.
2. It's lack of believability makes it more compelling that direct biography. It turns the story into myth and allegory, giving it a much more profound story, and giving it a universal meaning rather than a personal one. In this sense it fits Obrien's perfectly, as it makes us ask the question "is it true"
ReplyDelete3.
Mary Ann-Innocence of humanity before war, the pure virgin later to be desecrated by the horrors of war
Jungle-Represents the confusing chaos of war, and violence. When "the pure virgin" becomes "one with the jungle" it represents a complete loss of humanity in the face of that immense, humid, violence.
Tongue Necklace-Murder and Inhumanity's transformation from foreign uncommon things to a component of the everyday
4. "Over the next day or two, as more casualties trickled in, she learned how to clip and artery and pump up a plastic splint and shoot in morphine" (98) This piece shows the first hardening of innocence. She learns to deal with, and accept the blood and pain. She loses her naive nature. "She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandana. Hygiene became a matter of small consequence" (98). Mary Anne has been transformed from the war. She is no longer innocent, but now involved in a war that is beyond her.
5. In the cave there are the bones of humans, and the stench of death. It is ancient, like the caves a primitive human would live in strewn with bones, blood, and mythologic terror. The cave represents a different side, darker, side of humanity that Mary Ann has descended into(as rat etc descend into the face).
6. Because the story lacks a definite ending, it allows the story to evolve from a mere re-telling into a myth. Something that others can change, and understand differently. As with much of Obrien, the only important aspect of the story is the moral, and the emotional response, any clear cut ending would take the reading out of the mysticism of the chapter.
Gus, Harry, Grace
and George
ReplyDelete5. The "cave scene" was the final stage of Mary Anne's change. In the "cave scene" Rat Kiley and Eddie Diamond heard a woman chanting and singing in a foreign tongue. They saw Fossie and Fossie told them it was Mary Anne. Then Fossie stormed in the cave and Rat and Eddie followed. When they got inside the cave there were "...a dozen candles burning on the floor near the open window... There was a topmost scent of joss sticks and incense, like the fumes of some exotic smokehouse, but beneath the smoke lay a deeper and much more powerful stench...Thick and numbing like an animal's den, a mix of blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh...And bones. Stacks of bones- all kinds." (109-110) After this cave scene Mary Anne is now officially apart of Vietnam.
ReplyDelete6. No it does not matter what happened to Mary Anne. It is how she changed and why that matters. The vague ending adds to the loss of innocence and leaves the audience thinking that she only got worse as the days progressed.
Chantel and Maeve
Taylor, Shannon, Emily, and Cassidy. Period 9.
ReplyDelete1. In "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong," the excitement and danger of the war transforms Mary Anne. She says she wants to "swallow the whole country" of Vietnam. Mary Anne's gender does not play a role in her transformation; Vietnam steals innocence from everyone. The purpose of this story is to illustrate how war has the power of turning humans into killing machines.
2. It's lack of believability makes it more compelling. The highly fantastical component gives it a much more profound story, and provides a universal meaning rather than a personal one. It is so unbelievable that it makes the reader question if it is actually true, due to O'Brien's description of a "true war story."
3. Mary Anne represents the innocence of humanity before war. She is the "purity" that a country or a group of people have that later is desecrated by the horrors of war.
The Jungle represents the confusing chaos of war and violence. When the chaos of war meets innocence (or Mary Anne meets the Jungle) it represents a complete loss of humanity in the face of that immense, humid, violence.
Finally, the tongue necklace represents murder: the transformation from foreign uncommon things to a component of the everyday
4. "Over the next day or two, as more casualties trickled in, she learned how to clip and artery and pump up a plastic splint and shoot in morphine" (98)
“At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable” (111).
“All camouflaged up, her face smooth and vacant, she seemed to flow like water through the dark, like oil, without sound or center” (115)
Mary Anne did not go crazy. Instead, she embraced the "culture" of war because in an environment where she is the only "purity," eventually it will rub off and she will be naked in a sense until she dons the war mentality.
5. In the cave scene, Mary Anne has become an embodiment of everything that war is. The cave contains bones and a leopard head, blood, rotting flesh. The evil has emerged in her and she appears with human tongues around her neck and her pink sweater.
6. The story lacks a definite ending, which it allows it to really personify the idea that one does not know where the truth ends with Rat Kiley. The vague ending simply confirms that Mary Anne's innocence has been snatched and she is not coming back.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOlivia and Ryder
ReplyDelete1. Ultimately, the constant rush of adrenaline and the need to be acutely aware of her surroundings transformed Mary Anne into a skilled soldier and a fierce killing machine. In terms of adding to the story, it does matter that Mary Anne was a woman. It is perhaps even more disturbing to the reader that a woman could succumb to the lifestyle that war brings with it, even more so that she could thrive in it. This story illustrates that even the most sweet, innocent things become corrupt when faced with the possibility of death and the possibility of triumph, and how addicting and deadly the combination of both can be.
2. The fact that this story is so hard to believe makes it all the more enticing. However, in the end it's not really about whether the story actually happened or not. It's about the story behind the story, the profound meaning. It does fit the criteria for a true war story. Not only does it reveal truths about the nature of the war, but also the nature of humans and their ability to become, put simply, inhuman.
3. The necklace of tongues represents the casual acceptance of killing Mary Anne adapts to. It also represents her transition into a killing machine. She no longer bats an eye at the loss of human life- it becomes expendable to her when she risks hers so frequently and feels more alive than she ever has.
Mary Anne herself represents the innocence lost in the war. The loss of innocence is more pronounced in her story because to the men she was the sweetest, most innocent thing that had seen since they left their homes, and it mesmerized them that something so pure could still exist, and it broke their hearts to see something like that collapse just as they had in the midst of war.
The cave Mary Anne escapes to represents her “dark side”, which marks her complete loss of innocence and humanity, something so common in the war. She is now completely gone- and replacing what she once was is now a soldier, a trained killer, which proves to be an irreversible leap.
4. “Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but adrenaline buzz that went with the job..." (98)
"When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark--I'm on fire almost--I'm burning away into nothing--but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am. You can't feel like that anywhere else" (111).
“All camouflaged up, her face smooth and vacant, she seemed to flow like water through the dark, like oil, without sound or center.” (115)
These quotes illustrate Mary Anne’s change from start to finish. She doesn’t go crazy at all. She becomes aloof, calculating- unfazed by the bloodshed and the tragedy of it all. And at the same time, she becomes closer to herself, more aware of how alive every part of her is, while being so dangerously close to death. It’s almost as if she views the war as a game. She takes chances, she makes swift attacks, and constantly avoids ‘game over’.
5. The cave scene is dark, gruesome, and eye opening. Mary Anne has found her “dark side” and likes it there. The cave smells of, “blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh--the stink of the kill" (110). The cave is eerie, almost as if it is a home to a beast or primitive animals. Mary Anne wears her necklace of tongues which contrasts starkly with her pink sweater and white blouse, which brings to light just how much she’s changed.
6. It doesn’t really matter what happens to her in the end. The reader almost doesn’t want to know. It’s almost more emotionally satisfying to leave it a question as it adds to the mystery of the story. The ending just signifies that the land has taken Mary Anne- she is lost, along with her old character, life, and the innocence she once embodied.
My, Hannah, Becky, Gracie Parker, Grace Elliott
ReplyDelete1. The atmosphere of war changes Mary Anne. It makes her into a predatory killer, she finds herself craving the land itself and so on. It matters that she is a woman because it made everyone conscious of her. It's also important that she is a woman because it shows that the war in Vietnam can change anyone, even those who were expected to never even step foot on the land. The story tells us that the Vietnam War can change anybody. It messes with heads, state of minds, people's ways of lives. Once you come out from the war, you're never the same again.
2. It's lack of believability does not make it less compelling. It's making it more so and that's what O'Brien tells us in the first place. We're not expected to believe in the story, but it exaggerates and causes us to see it in a way that allows us to see it has he has. This does fit O'Brien's criteria for a true war story. It's not true, and yet it is. It isn't fact but lets us view it as a soldier or O'Brien himself.
3. The white culottes that Mary Anne first wore symbolized her innocence. She was sent straight out, unknowing the of the world she would soon arrive in. She later abandons her white culottes, which obviously symbolizes her innocence torn away from her by the war.
The necklace of human tongues worn around Mary Anne's neck was a symbol of the war, the things that it did to people. The gross and horrible things done were shown by the collection of cut off tongues on Mary Anne's necklace. It was grotesque, and so was the war.
The Green Berets symbolize the evil and destitution of the war, and the driving force behind the insanity. They were what created the fog of war to the other soldiers.
My, Hannah, Becky, Gracie Parker, Grace Elliott
ReplyDeletecontinued
4. "Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but adrenaline buzz that went with the job..." (98)
“At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable” (111).
"She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandana. Hygiene became a matter of small consequence" (98)
Mary Anne is at first an average, young girl from America. She is young and pure and arrives in Vietnam clueless as to what will later become of her. She cuts her short hair and she abandons her white culottes and the cute clothes she first wore. She later becomes accustomed to the weapons, food, the men, etc. She changes. She doesn't exactly go crazy. The war, indeed, does tend to make people crazy, but in this story the war changed Mary Anne. Mary Anne was a symbol of the soldiers that the war had warped and changed.
5. The "cave scene" is definitely somethings that makes us as a reader wince or back away a bit from. The details are horrific and shocking. The imagery from the necklace of tongues leave us with a gruesome picture in mind. Mary Anne has found another side. She has become someone new, someone who has become, like said before, a predatory killer.
6. It doesn't matter what happens in the end to Mary Anne. It's like what happens to soldiers after a war, some are missing in action, some have died, some have come back but as remnants of what they used to be. It is different, war ends in so many ways for so many people. It wouldn't make the story better if we had known. It wouldn't leave us with a mysterious feeling if we had ultimately known what had happened with Mary Anne. The vague ending definitely adds to the story, it leaves it up to the reader to imagine what Mary Anne has been up to afterwards.
Isho
ReplyDelete1) In “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong”, the Ambush transforms Mary Anne into a predatory killer. She probably wants to die fighting for her country. She cannot stay in a war zone without doing anything, she has to either kill or be killed. She has to learn to protect herself. No, the fact that she is a woman does not matter at all, because every individual have their own characteristics. It does not depend on what gender the individual is, it depends on their character. The story tells us that the nature of the Vietnam War is like art. There is beauty hidden in the war, one will only see that beauty when he/she seeks for it. When one looks deep into the Vietnam War and its nature, one will discover a whole new point of view of the war.
2) The story Rat tells seems very realistic. Its lack of believability actually makes the story more interesting and it drags me into the story. Yes, I would fall for this story and maybe believe it too. I do not think that it fits O’Brien’s criteria for a true war story.
3) Symbols.
* Mary Anne: She is symbolic of ignorance and innocence. She shows how even the innocent or ignorant can be transformed when it comes to war.
*The human tongue necklace: This is a symbol of danger, no mercy and most of all, war.
*pink sweater and culottes: These clothes are the clothes of a “real woman”.
4)
* “She seemed comfortable and entirely at home; the hostile atmosphere did not seem to register. All morning Mary Anne chattered away about how quaint the place was, how she loved the naked children, the wonderful simplicity of village life.”(96)
* “The way she quickly fell into the habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing. She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandanna.”(98)
* “Her eyes seemed to shine in the dark-not blue, though, but a bright glowing jungle green.”(106)
Mary Anne does not go crazy. The war defines her, its part of her, it’s who she is. She finally discovered herself in the war.
5. The cave scene illustrates Mary Anne’s complete transformation. She is not the old Mary Anne any more; she is a whole new person. She is the definition of death and danger in this scene.
Graphic imagery from that scene:
*”Across the room a dozen candles were burning on the floor near the open window” (109).
* “On a post at the rear of the hootch was the decayed head of a large black leopard; strips of yellow-brown ski dangled from the overhead rafters. And bones. Stacks of bones-all kinds” (110). “She was barefoot. She wore her pink sweater and a white blouse and a simple cotton skirt” (110).
6) Well, yes what happened to Mary Anne matters, but it’s an intelligent choice that the author doesn’t tell what happened to her. It grabs more attention and it gets to the point where the readers will be questioning about the end. Like, did Vietnam eat her instead of her eating Vietnam? Did Vietnam destroy her? It would not be a better story if we knew what happened to Mary Anne.