"Stockings"
1. What did Dobbins do with his pantyhose when his girlfriend dumped him?
"Church"
1. What did the monks at the temple help Henry Dobbins do?
2. How does Kiowa feel about the soldiers camping at the temple?
"The Man I Killed"
1. What is paragraph one of the story about?
2. What did the young man hope some day to become?
3. What is Kiowa doing throughout the story?
4. What is Tim doing?
5. What did the boy fear about his performance in battle?
6. How did the other boys at school treat him?
7. What does Tim’s examination of the boy’s body tell us about Tim’s feelings about his death?
8. What was the boy carrying?
9. What does Kiowa keep insisting Tim do?
10. How does Tim respond?
"Ambush"
1. Why did Tim throw the grenade at the young man?
2. What could Tim have done instead?
3. What is the significance of the story’s final image?
"Style"
1. What was the young girl doing when the company came to her village?
2. What did Azar do that night?
3. How did Henry Dobbins respond?
"Speaking of Courage"
1. As the story opens, what is Norman Bowker doing?
2. What happened to Norman's friend Max?
3. On pg. 129, what does Max say about the necessity of God as an "idea"?
4. What happened to his old girlfriend, Sally Kramer?
5. How long has he been doing his present activity? (see pg. 140)
6. What day of the year does this story take place?
7. Which one of his medals was Norman Bowker especially proud of?
8. What medal did he almost win?
9. How did the Song Tra Bong change during the rainy season?
10. What was it about the river that especially got to Norman?
11. What did the town not care to know about?
12. What does the word "bivouack" mean?
13. What did the old women of the ville yell to the men when they bivouacked in the field?
14. What did the soldiers realize was the purpose of the field?
15. In the field, what was the difference between courage and cowardice?
16. What happened to the platoon late in the night?
17. Who did Norman hear screaming?
18. What did Norman see in the glare of the red flares?
19. How did Norman try to save Kiowa?
20. What made him fail?
21. What would Norman never be able to do?
22. Where is Norman at the very end of the story, and what is he looking at?
"Notes"
1. What did Norman do to himself in 1978?
2. What did he feel had happened to him in Vietnam?
3. What does he ask Tim to do?
4. What had O'Brien felt smug about?
5. According to O'Brien, what are you doing when you tell stories about your own experience?
6. How did O'Brien feel about the short story he published from a chapter in "Going After Cacciato"?
7. Ultimately, what "ruined" the story?
8. What did Norman have to say about the story?
9. How did O'Brien revise the story for The Things They Carried?
10. Who was "in no way responsible" for Kiowa's death, according to O'Brien?
group: Chasity Henry, Leah Garlock, Aubrey Grube, and Whitney White
ReplyDelete***Note: We only were able to complete "Stockings" through "Style"
"Stockings"---
After Dobbins was dumped by his girlfriend he still wore the pantyhose. To Dobbins, the pantyhose were a security blanket, an amulet for good luck and protection. Just like the other soldiers in his group, the need for protection came through superstitious routines and random objects. Not only did the soldiers see the good luck charms as a personal comfort, but it gave them all something to believe in, as well.
"Church"---
1. The monks in the temple helped Henry Dobbins by cleaning various weapons (M-60, trigger assembly of a machine gun, etc.). The monks also gave Dobbins a boost of spirit, giving him much attention, and calling him things like "Soldier Jesus."
2.Kiowa did not feel that it was right for the soldiers to have camped out in the temple. He saw it as disrespectful to camp out on holy grounds, and that it meant "bad" things.
"The Man I Killed"---
The beginning of this chapter starts off with a vivid description of the man Tim had shot and killed. While Timmy did not know the man he killed, his imagination started to create the man's whole life story. Timmy imagined that he had aspirations to become a math teacher, that he preferred books over weapons, and feared death and fighting more than anything else. Kiowa who was with Tim after the man had been killed was trying to urge Timmy on, telling him to do something, anything, instead of just standing and staring at the man's body. Timmy did not respond to any of this; however, he was lost in his own thoughts and his own sympathetic guilt. Found on the man (really more like a young boy), was a ring, a picture of a girl, and a gun. At the last moments of the chapter, all Tim could focus on was the star shaped hole where the boy's eye should have been, lost in everything but his own thoughts.
"Ambush"---
1. Tim threw the grenade at the young man out of fear and war instinct.
2. Instead Tim could have done nothing, and took his chances at life or death.
3. The story's final image is significant because it is Tim's guilt that plays the images in his mind. He pictures the man walking past him and evaporating into the fog, much like the young might have done if he had not been killed.
"Style"---
In this story, the sight of a girl dancing intrigues the soldiers, for they are puzzled behind the purpose of her movement. The girl dances in front of her burning house, in front of the place where her parents are now dead. That night, while the soldiers camp out, Azar copies the girl's dancing, mocking it. Henry Dobbins responds; however, threatening Azar to do the dance right or not at all. The purpose behind the girl's dancing is never known. Maybe like the soldiers she dances, because she is happy to still be alive. Or maybe, she dances in mourning, dancing to some sort of unknown ritual. Whatever her purpose, the sight is an odd one.
I am posting for me, Sam, Chastity, Tatiana Valerie and Michelle
ReplyDelete"Stockings":
1) He still wore them because he thought they were good luck.
"Church"
1) They cleaned guns
2) He doesnt think its right. He thinks they shouldn't be setting up in a church.
"The Man I Killed"
1) Its a description of the man he killed.
2) A math teacher
3) Kiowa was trying to comfort Tim and reassure him.
4) Freaking out.
5) He ws afraid of dissapoint his family, his community and his village.
6) They made fun of him, called him girly, and called him dorky (basically what we do to Alex)
7) He feels like he erased the rest of this guy's life.
"Speaking of Courage"
1) He was driving around in circles
2) He drowned in a lake.
3) There has to be something to be a casue of everything and God is always placed as that something. Like God is the reason for (fill in the blank)
4) She got married to somone else.
5) He was doing the activity for 3 hours
6) 4th of July
7) He's especially proud of the Combat Infantryman Badge
8) He almost got the Silver Star
9) It flodded the surounding lands and made them all marshy.
10) The smell
11) They didnt care about the "dirty" things or the bad things they only cared about the heroic things that happened.
12) Bivouack means a night watch.
13) She told them to get out.
14) The purpose was a sewage field.
15) Courage would be staying to fight and Cowardice would be running away from the fight
16) They were attacked
17) He heard Kiowa screaming
19) He dragged him by the foot.
20) The smell stopped him
21) He wouldn't be able to talk about it or ever forgive himself for what happened.
22) He's sitting in a room and he'll look up and see the man coming out of the fog and pass him up the trail.
As a group, Sarah Woloson, Michael Statt and I listed off the obvious (if not superficial) answers to the simpler questions. Dobbin's keeps his ex girlfriend's hose because it's part of his routine, the monks help clean his M-16, showing the wide influence of the war over entire populations.
ReplyDeleteHowever, we spent most of our time discussing deeper topics, like Tim's motives for killing a man in "Ambush" and Norman's behavior in "Speaking of Courage."
In "Ambush," Tim throws a grenade on a whim, killing a young man whom he could've let walk past. The final image of the dead man walking away symbolizes a missed opportunity, but also the catharsis occurring within the speaker as he imagines the scene: since he lets the man pass, he can forgive himself, letting the guilt and memory "continue up the trail where it bends back into the fog."
However, there was some discussion about Tim's original motive for throwing the grenade in the first place. On a primitive level, it was strictly an action of self-defense, since Tim saw an enemy and reacted. On a military level, however, one can argue that Tim had orders as a soldier in the field to secure his perimeter and defend his company, requiring him to kill the intruder. The simple fact that this answer can be disputed demonstrates the foreign and foggy nature of war, which O’Brien refers to often.
We also talked about “Speaking of Courage,” drawing parallels between Sally Kramer’s forgetting Norman and those who weren’t involved in the war moving on once headlines became commonplace and monotonous. Their ignorance of the soldier’s fate and inability to understand becomes a frustration for Bowker, who needs an outlet for his growing guilt. He travels around the lake constantly, circling the issue of this overwhelming feeling of responsibility for the death of Kiowa. He can’t stop driving, just like he can’t settle back into his old life and re-assimilate into society with anything approaching ease. This form of PTSD, and the restlessness felt by millions of veterans resulted in their suicides, just as it did for Norman in the chapter “Notes.”
Alex/Zach/Rosie/Tom
ReplyDeleteAfter Dobbins was dumped, he still kept the pantyhose because they were, in a way, a method of coping with the war. During their stay at the Church, the monks grew fond of Dobbins, helping him clean his gun. Kiowa, however, felt insecure about the soldiers camping at a Church because it just felt morally wrong to him.
In "The Man I Killed" and "Ambush", Timmy is experiencing guilt over his murder of a young Vietnamese man. He keeps describing different scenarios of the man's life, such as his childhood and his girlfriend, which kept him spiraling into despair. Overall, this showed that despite the instinctive apathy that came with killing the man, the soldiers still felt heavy guilt after the death of the person they killed.
In "Style", O'Brien tells the story of a young girl dancing after her family was discovered dead. Mocking the girl, Azar also dances, but stops after being threatened by Dobbins, which displays the connection that people who lead different lives from one another can have.
In "Speaking of Courage" and "Notes", we discuss that overwhelming emotion felt by Bowker post-war. Everyone in his life doesn't understand what he went through, instead opting to move along with their own lives. Due to this, Bowker becomes frustrated and contacts Timmy, asking him to help relay his story and possibly help Bowker feel a catharsis of sorts. However, when Timmy excludes details, such as the shit field and Kiowa, Bowker does not outright say that it was a load of crock, just saying that Tim neglected the real experience of Nam.
Posting For: Zachariah Bellucci and Darnell Johnson
ReplyDeleteStockings
1. He kept them for their "magic."
Church
1. Dobbin wants to be a minister.
2. Kioawa doesn't want to be there.
The Man I killed
1. It described the corpse of the guy Tim killed.
2. he wanted to be a mathematician.
3. Cheer him up.
4. He was moping because he killed a guy.
5. He was afraid to disgrace himself in the battlefield.
6. He was bullied because of his girlish physique.
7. He feels remorseful.
8. Ammo, sandals, and a picture of a girl.
9. Talk about it, getting his emotions out there.
10. He doesn't.
Ambush
1. Multitude of reasons, fear of death, of his position being compromised, the vulnerability of his adversary, or just because that was his training.
2. Let him walk by.
3. The haze of war.
Style
1. She is dancing.
2. He mocks her by dancing like an idiot.
3. Threatens to drop him in a well.
Speaking of Courage
"Speaking of Courage"
1. Driving.
2. He drowned.
3. Essentially, there needs to be something out there to satisfy the human mind's need to know why things happen. God is that something.
4. She got married.
5. For three hours.
6. The 4th of july.
7. Combat Infantryman Badge (awarded to exceptional foot troops.)
8. Silver Star.
9. Monsoons came in and turned the dry landscape into a mess of mud and water and everything in between.
10. It had a vendetta against his nose.
11. The not so nice things, and can you blame them?
12. That means you're on Fire Watch at night.
13. She yelled at them to go away.
14. They figured out it was a crap field.
15. Courage (as defined by them) is fighting 'til the end, cowardice is leaving before victory (retreat).
16. A night raid.
17. Kioawa.
19. He tried to pull him by the boot.
20. The stench.
21. He would never be able to come to terms with the fact that Kioawa died due to his mistake.
22. He is at the beach and and he is watching a fireworks show.
This is my summary of what has happened thus far:
ReplyDeleteIt seems that O'Brien is trying to use not actual experiences of war, because they would hurt too much, but things that were similar, or could have happened, to describe the severity of the war. In Notes, it is hard to distinguish whether Norman actually went on to kill himself, or if O'Brien was using this as a way to speak about how the war can really effect war veterans. Norman, like so many other veterans, especially from Vietnam, was really deeply changed by the war, or at least the Norman of the story. For me, this may have been the most distressing of all the stories that O'Brien includes, because it exemplifies how you don't have to be in the mud, being fired at to die, and you can be thousands of miles away from Vietnam, and still feel as though you have never left. This feeling of hopelessness was inescapable, and probably really scary. Whether the person in this story was a small part of O'Brien himself, a part he was eventually able to suppress, is unclear. Perhaps the saddest part of Norman's story was how the thing that he felt so bad about was how, not including Kiowa's death, but that he couldn't bring how the Silver Star for his father. This shows how the people back home really think that they can tell you how to face the war, how to deal with the war, but really they have no idea. They don't know what it's like to kill someone, to be so scared you pee your pants, to be eighteen and responsible for people's lives. This is, I believe, O'Brien is trying to convey, along with his personal story about his decision about going to war, how the family back home can never really understand.
On Stockings, this was a story of how the littlest things bring us comfort. Although his girlfriend dumped him, it was the thought of back home, the innocence, the lack of worry, that he really craved. It wasn't the person herself, although that may have been a small part of it, but the thought of what she encompassed. That feeling of, what none of these guys had felt in a long time, feeling safe. Feeling at home.
Group: Whitney White, Chasity Henry, Leah Garlock, and Aubrey Grube
ReplyDeleteNote: This is a continuation of our last post
"Speaking of Courage"
In this chapter Norman Bowker takes us on a journey around a lake in his home town where he saw Sally Kramer mow the lawn of her "pleasant blue house," two boys hiking, a man trying to get his motorboat going, water skiers, and people sitting out to hear the high school band. Really it's his way of trying to accept "home" after combat. He goes through this "stream of consciousness" playing out in his mind what it would be like to talk to his father about what he experienced at war, and the reason for not receiving a Silver Star. How his father wanted to see his badges, Kiowa's death being so unexpected, and representing the mistakes that were made out on the field of waste. There seemed to also be a connection between the lake and the field because of their defiled qualities.
"Notes"
Norman Bowker committed suicide in a YMCA locker room after a time of trying to get into the routine of living back at home. Tim talked about how he was going to incorporate his story inspired by Bowker in his novel "Going After Cacciato" but it didn't fit. This chapter in its beginning lines really symbolized that the adaptation to home, for many soldiers, was made a lone.
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